Lawyers for Seagram heiress Clare Bronfman, 42, have asked for an early prison release because of a liver disorder after she was sentenced to almost seven years behind bars last month. Nancy Salzman is heading to jail in 2020 after pleading guilty. Nancy Salzman’s program developments. Thanks for contacting us. She asked to lift her curfew and remove her ankle bracelet (which the court denied). Smallville actress Allison Mack, the group's bookkeeper Kathy Russell, NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman and her daughter Lauren Salzman have also been charged (Pictured clockwise) The mysterious group NXIVM has been covered in newspapers, Lifetime movies, and magazine exposés. In 1998, Raniere and Nancy Salzman founded NXIVM, a personal development company offering "Executive Success Programs" and a range of techniques for self-improvement. In an interview with Vice, Hassan elaborated on NXIVM's use of NLP, specifically. Oprah Magazine participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites. Salzman, a psychiatric nurse and practitioner of hypnotic therapies, helped leader Keith Raniere to establish the group that would become NXIVM … Salzman was released on a $5 million bail, resided in a Brooklyn jail until his October 27 sentencing, raise the alarms about Raniere's behavior, Raniere hypnotized her out of a smoking habit, Hoda Kotb's Co-Anchors Celebrate Her Engagement, Why Meghan and Harry's Baby Reveal Was Different, The Pandemic Has Caused a Gossip Shortage, Inside Little St. James, Jeffrey Epstein's Island. But now that the group has officially dissolved, Lauren has been caught up in the aftermath of the cult and faces consequences of her own. [3] Subscribe. Salzman will remain out on bond until sentencing, which is currently scheduled for July 10. “I still believe some of what we did was good.”. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site. Nancy Salzman was a hypnotist before she co-founded NXIVM with Keith Raniere. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Nancy Salzman, the co-founder of NXIVM known to members as “Prefect,” pleaded guilty to a charge of racketeering conspiracy in March 2019 but has not yet been sentenced. In 2019, Lauren, 42, pled guilty on two felony charges, and and admitted that she kept a woman locked in a room for more than two years. In her tearful statement, Salzman said she’d obtained passwords and user names to monitor suspected moles within the organization and see if they were revealing the group’s secrets. “I still believe that some of what we did was good,” she added. Organized as a hierarchy of "masters" and "slaves," the women in DOS made a lifelong vow of subservience to Raniere. She stole the email passwords of people who were thought to oppose NXIVM, and altered tapes of herself teaching courses to be used during a lawsuit against cult deprogrammer Rick Ross, who helped NXIVM members escape, according to Vice. NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman, "Smallville" actress Allison Mack and Seagram liquor heiress Claire Bronfman have all pleaded guilty to charges related to the group. In 1997, Nancy Salzman founded ESP, the Executive Success Program. Her words are accompanied by shots of an ankle monitor, and what we can assume are Nancy's hands folding a gold NXIVM sash (the sashes were gifted as symbols of level ascendance within the group). Salzman Was Allegedly a ‘Slave’ to the NXIVM Leader, Keith Raniere & Pledged Lifelong Loyalty … Nancy Salzman Salzman, the co-founder of NXIVM with Raniere, was the first of high-ranking officials to plead guilty. Essentially, nothing that occurs in The Vow would have been possible without her influence. Neither her daughter nor the other co-defendants were in court. The part that grabbed her came midway through, when NXIVM’s co-founder Nancy Salzman theorized that people with low self-esteem let their “limiting beliefs” curb their potential. Recommended to you based on your activity and what's popular • Feedback Nancy Salzman, the woman who co-founded the group with Keith Raniere was in tears as she entered a guilty plea to one count of racketeering. Opening statements are scheduled for April 29. She also confessed to “having others destroy video tapes” memorializing Raniere’s teachings. https://frankreport.com/2019/09/18/who-is-nancy-salzman-and-where-is-she-now Keith Raniere’s Cult NXIVM Normalized Rape, This Is How Nancy Salzman Made Women Fall For It . Nancy Salzman was a hypnotist before she co-founded NXIVM with Keith Raniere. Even before NXIVM, Raniere was implementing hypnosis in his relationships: Natalie, Raniere's ex-girlfriend, said that Raniere hypnotized her out of a smoking habit. HBO's The Vow, inevitably, features her story.Not only is she the daughter of NXIVM … Nxivm co-founder Nancy Salzman pleads guilty in sex cult case Cult expert Steve Hassan believes NXIVM's influence over its members derives from the use of NLP and hypnosis. Then you can change your role.”. Nancy Salzman, a nurse and hypnotist, created much of the psychological framework used in NXIVM courses. And she would know—Lauren wrote DOS's handbook, which included passages like: “The best slave derives the highest pleasure from being her master’s ultimate tool...You surrender your life, mind, body for unconditional use.”. Speaking to OprahMag.com, Hassan explained the use of hypnosis as it relates to cults like NXIVM, not stage shows. One of those players is Lauren Salzman, daughter of NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman, and a high-ranking official within Keith’s inner circle known as DOS. Keith Raniere Nancy Salzman TV. Nancy Salzman has pleaded guilty to racketeering and broke down crying in … “I am deeply sorry for the trouble I caused my daughter, [and] the pain I caused my parents. At the time Salzman was a nurse and trained hypnotist. Raniere, conversely, was denied bail, and resided in a Brooklyn jail until his October 27 sentencing. She is one of the most infamous nurses who was the recruiter affiliated with the racketeering and sex trafficking “secret sisterhood” within the company NXIVM. A former nurse, Salzman worked with Keith Raniere in the development of the organization beginning in the 1990s. Essentially, there is a direct line between The Vow and that meeting at a health food store in 1997, when two hypnotists began planning NXIVM. “I justified them by saying that what we were doing was for the greater good,” she told Judge Nicholas Garaufis. Nancy Salzman, 64, AKA Prefect, was one of the two founders of Executive Success Programs [1998] – later known as Nxivm [ca 2003]. The season finale of The Vow on HBO aired Sunday, leaving viewers with questions about what happened to NXIVM’s key players, including Keith Raniere, Allison Mack, Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman, India Oxenberg, and Clare Bronfman.. They were subjected to methods of control like extreme calorie counting, physical punishment, and—most famously—branding of Raniere's initials. She did so in March 2019, admitting to one count of racketeering. Terms of Use Salzman, a co-founder of NXIVM, an embattled upstate New York self-help organization, is expected to plead guilty in a case featuring sensational claims … She did so in March 2019, admitting to one count of racketeering. In 1998, Salzman incorporated the group that would become NXIVM in Delaware. This story has been shared 94,298 times. “I want you to know I am pleading guilty because I am, in fact, guilty,” she said in Brooklyn federal court, her voice breaking. Nancy Salzman, the “Prefect” of NXIVM and Keith’s co-founder, is strangely glossed over by The Vow. Her lawyer Robert Soloway told The Post Tuesday that his client would not be cooperating against her fellow Nxians. NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman, etc have all been indicted with federal charges for their sex trafficking and running a sex-cult within the company that forced labor on its employees. Hypnotic techniques used by mind-controllers can do grave harm. You may be able to find more information about this and similar content at piano.io, Michelle Obama Stuns at Biden-Harris Inauguration, Prince Harry Decries the Siege on the Capitol, Cover Reveal: SNL Star Cecily Strong's New Memoir, All About Aliah Sheffield's Viral TikTok Song, 21 Best Korean Dramas to Stream On Netflix, Book Review: "The Dangers of Smoking in Bed". However, as The Vow shows, Salzman was extremely influential in recruiting new members to NXIVM through the Executive Success Program (ESP), the group's on-ramp to indoctrination. But now that the group has officially dissolved, Lauren has been caught up in the aftermath of the cult and faces consequences of her own. Their relationship solidified in 1999, when Raniere and Natalie were involved in a contentious bankruptcy lawsuit over their failed business, and Salzman took Raniere's side. To NXIVM's members, Salzman, 65, was better known as "Prefect," a title that denoted her second-in-command status. Privacy Notice Salzman, also known as “Prefect,” co-founded the self-proclaimed self help group with Keith Raniere in the 1990s. Nxivm’s accused cult leader played twisted sex games with his top female lieutenants — and even planned to build a basement dungeon to cage … Over 16,000 people took the courses that she developed. By R.G. Barnet On Dec 2, 2020. “Loyalty is good in certain contexts and very bad in other contexts,” Salzman says in the voice over. Our editors handpick the products that we feature. Nancy Salzman Salzman, the co-founder of NXIVM with Raniere, was the first of high-ranking officials to plead guilty. Co-founder Nancy Salzman admitted in court that she tracked and monitored women within NXIVM. "I watched people go through sessions and talk about things that should be shared with a professional, not people who aren’t skilled," she said of their ESP programs in an as-told-to interview with The Cut. She is expected to plead guilty in the racketeering case … Bronfman and Nxivm accountant Kathy Russell are charged with money laundering and racketeering, and have requested they be tried separately from Mack, Raniere and Lauren Salzman, who are also facing sex trafficking charges. NXIVM's origin story dates back to 1997, the year Salzman met Raniere at the health food store he owned in Clifton Park, New York with his girlfriend of eight years, Toni Natalie (who went on to raise the alarms about Raniere's behavior, long before his indictment in 2018). According to the New York Times, Salzman, a former nurse and trained hypnotist, helped shape the "behavioral programs that formed the basis of NXIVM." Speaking at Raniere's trial in 2019, Lauren said the goal of these methods was to create an atmosphere of “total obedience and secrecy," per the New York Times. Now, Salzman is awaiting sentencing herself, which had been slated for July 19 but has been pushed back indefinitely. Raniere war mit NXIVM in … Nancy Salzman And Lauren Salzman were high ranking members in NXIVM, which has been exposed as having a sex cult at its core lead by leader Keith Raniere. Your California Privacy Rights In her role, she served precisely as Toni Natalie did with the National Health Network. Nancy was a former psychiatric nurse who was the person responsible for brainwashing their victims. Through the series we are introduced to other important members who made NXIVM possible. One name has been surprisingly absent as of late: Nancy Salzman. Lauren Salzman, 42, is the daughter of Nancy Salzman, 64, who is the co-founded of NXIVM. One of those players is Lauren Salzman, daughter of NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman, and a high-ranking official within Keith’s inner circle known as DOS.. Raniere, alongside “Smallville” actress Allison Mack, Seagram heir Claire Bronfman and Salzman’s daughter Lauren, still face sex trafficking, kidnapping, money laundering and other charges for allegedly coercing women into having sex with Raniere. “It has taken me some time and some soul-searching to come to this place,” she said during her hearing in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, New York, on Wednesday, via Albany’s Times Union. Nancy L. Salzman, RN is an American criminal and the founder of NXIVM, a multi-level marketing company and cult based near Albany, New York. Doug Rutnik’s employment with the NXIVM cult is confirmed by his signature on a 2006 settlement agreement also signed by Clare Bronfman and Nancy Salzman. Nancy Salzman, the co-founder of NXIVM known to members as “Prefect,” pleaded guilty to a charge of racketeering conspiracy in … Other NXIVM leaders also pleaded guilty in court, and NewsChannel 13 is working to find out when they will be sentenced. The Vow May Be Over, But the Trials of the NXIVM Members Are at a Critical Point Clare Bronfman. Nancy Salzman may not have been the highest-profile name caught up in the NXIVM scandal, but as new HBO documentary The Vow shows, she was one of … What you have to do is stop believing that that’s who you are. The co-founder and president of accused upstate sex cult Nxivm broke down in tears Wednesday as she admitted to hacking into emails of the group’s perceived enemies and destroying evidence that could be used against them. Do Not Sell My Personal Information, Your California Privacy Rights Season 1 of The Vow, a nine-part documentary series on HBO, explored NXIVM (pronounced Nex-ee-um) from the perspective of people who knew its key figures, like Allison Mack, Keith Raniere, and Nancy Salzman, personally. Nancy Salzman, 64, who pleaded guilty to a single charge of racketeering conspiracy, sobbed as she apologized for drawing her daughter, Lauren — who is also charged in the case — into the group, which prosecutors have described as a perverted pyramid organization. We may earn commission from the links on this page. DOS, which stands for Dominant Over Submissive, was originally founded as a "women's empowerment group." Here's what you need to know about Salzman, including where she is now. Not only is she the daughter of NXIVM cofounder Nancy Salzman, but she also ranked high in NXIVM leader Keith Raniere's inner circle, DOS. Im Jahr 1998 gründete er zusammen mit der Krankenschwester Nancy Salzman die NXIVM Corporation, die mit Seminaren zur Selbstfindung warb. The high-ranking cult leader was also a trained hypnotist. This content is imported from YouTube. These are two or four hour meetings. In 2018, Raniere and Salzman were both indicted on NXIVM-related charges. Alongside Raniere, Salzman founded ESP in 1997. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. She hides it, but she’s a horrible sociopath, not unlike Keith Raniere. 1] Nancy Salzman is a demon. The techniques she employed were marketed as “self-improvement,” and thousands of … Your Ad Choices Nxivm’s accused cult leader played twisted sex games with his top female lieutenants — and even planned to build a basement dungeon to cage some of them, a former disciple testified Monday. This content is imported from {embed-name}. 94,298, This story has been shared 80,207 times. The techniques she employed were marketed as “self-improvement,” and thousands of wealthy people signed up, including famous actors. If you've heard of the sex cult NXIVM, chances are you've heard a handful of names, from powerful leaders to actors. When she did a workshop at our company, National Health Network, Keith saw what she could do to quickly engage a group of people, and her ability to hypnotize them," Natalie, who ended up having sessions with Salzman, told The Cut. “Talk about getting lost in a movie, we’re kind of lost in the role of our life. In 1997, Nancy Salzman founded ESP, the Executive Success Program. Nancy Salzman created NXIVM—and her daughter, Lauren, was a high-ranking member of its most controversial subgroup. NXIVM war eine Sekte oder Geheimbund, die Raniere als Selbsthilfeorganisation tarnte. https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/where-is-nancy-salzman-now-nxivm Nancy Salzman. March 13, 2019 | 4:46pm | Updated March 13, 2019 | 4:56pm. A former nurse, Salzman worked with Keith Raniere in the development of the organization beginning in the 1990s. "Keith saw what she could do to quickly engage a group of people, and her ability to hypnotize them.". She also asked to have contact with her daughter, Lauren (which the court allowed). According to Frank Parlato, a journalist who is featured in The Vow, Salzman is living with her other daughter, Michelle, in a home in Waterford NY. "I’ve talked to more than a few ex-members now who talked about their first meetings with Keith—they have no memory of what happened. The part that grabbed her came midway through, when NXIVM’s co-founder Nancy Salzman theorized that people with low self-esteem let their “limiting beliefs” curb their potential. Raniere's charges—which he was convicted of in 2019—included sex trafficking, fraud conspiracy, and racketeering. Nancy L. Salzman, RN (born July 16, 1954)[2] is an American criminal and the founder of NXIVM, a multi-level marketing company and cult based near Albany, New York. Co-leader Nancy Salzman pleaded guilty to racketeering conspiracy. The first season ended on a cliffhanger, showing a glimpse of Raniere and Nancy Salzman, his fellow convicted NXIVM co-founder, possibly sitting down for an interview with Noujaim and Amer. Crimes: Immigration fraud, tax evasion, fraud, withholding medical treatment from a person with cancer (not sure the legal term for this), and, possibly, accessory to murder. Organizations like NXIVM often have similar dynamics, including an authoritarian leader, but they have to speak to their cultural moment in order to truly work. She plead guilty to racketeering in 2019. Prosecutors have requested Salzman serve between 33 and 41 months. Salzman co-created NXIVM with Raniere in the late 1990s. On October 27, U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis sentenced Raniere to 120 years in prison, effectively a life sentence. For more stories like this, sign up for our newsletter. Nancy Salzman. Here's what happened to India Oxenberg, Keith Raniere, Allison Mack, Clare Bronfman, Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman. The daughter of NXIVM co-founder and president Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman served on the company’s executive board and was one of the “first-line masters” in DOS, the organization’s clandestine “master/slave” women’s group. Nancy Salzman, a co-founder of Nxivm, exiting the United States Courthouse in Brooklyn last July. After The Vow season finale on HBO, The Vow Season 2 will detail the NXIVM trials. We've received your submission. In July of 2018, NXIVM financial backer and Seagram heiress Clare Bronfman was indicted on several... Allison Mack. NXIVM co-founder Nancy Salzman, Lauren Salzman, etc have all been indicted with federal charges for their sex trafficking and running a sex-cult within the company that forced labor on its employees. 'If Nancy Salzman were more regular in her bowel movements, Nxivm might have never happened,'; writes Natalie int he book, which was release today. Garaufis has yet to rule on their request. “The very first time I ever met Gillibrand she was at an event for Hillary Clinton in the Hall of Springs in the State Park. Salzman, on the other hand, pled guilty on one charge of racketeering. Lauren Salzman is a name that you'll hear prominently in the unraveling of the self-help group NXIVM. "Hypnosis bypasses a person's conscious ability to think critically. This content is created and maintained by a third party, and imported onto this page to help users provide their email addresses. During her trial, Salzman admitted to interfering with NXIVM's perceived enemies twice. “I accept that some of the things I did were not just wrong, but sometimes criminal. 80,207, This story has been shared 61,280 times. The former psychiatric nurse lives in Albany, and has been battling undisclosed health problems. Do Not Sell My Personal Information. After being arrested in 2018, Salzman was released on a $5 million bail. Co-leader Nancy Salzman pleaded guilty to racketeering conspiracy. I have studied techniques used by many cult leaders and they all use variations of it," Hassan says. Raniere claimed that the programs' "main emphasis is to have people experience more joy in their lives." Prosecutors allege there was a secret sex-slave ring inside Nxivm, called DOS, in which women were starved, branded, and encouraged to have sex with Raniere. Get real time updates directly on you device, subscribe now. In actuality, DOS reportedly controlled women and groomed them to be sexual partners for Raniere. "There is probably no discovery since writing as important for humankind as Mr. Raniere's technology," Salzman wrote in a brochure, per Forbes. 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All Rights Reserved, Here's your chance to own horse farm linked to infamous Nxivm cult member, Allison Mack files for divorce from wife Nicki Clyne, Nxivm leader reportedly thinks he'll be killed in prison, 'We are proud of our choices': Ex-members defend branding, being part of Nxivm, The sky is the limit for new Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station, NYC restaurants are bracing for street chaos on Election Day, Olay launches sitewide sale in honor of Mercury in retrograde, You can get Coach Outlet's surprise Valentine's Day collection for up to 65 percent off, Brush up on your math skills with this $30 package of online classes, 10 best women’s loungewear sets that are as cute as they are comfortable, 10 best online cooking classes of 2021 for virtual culinary fun from home, Find out the jobs behind these expensive clothes, Larsa Pippen flaunts ample assets while tanning in string bikini. As an expert who studied NLP, I think that’s indicative of them being put into a hypnotic trance state, and specifically given a suggestion that they'll have no recollection of what was said or done," Hassan told Vice. Other NXIVM leaders also pleaded guilty in court, and NewsChannel 13 is working to find out when they will be sentenced. Salzman was immediately taken with Raniere and his teachings. According to the Times-Union, she faces a potential sentence of between 33 and 41 months in prison and a maximum fine of $250,000. Full run down on top players of NXIVM by former member. Salzman, who figures heavily in The Vow's first episode and "appears" via a phone conversation in the season finale, was previously not as high-profile as NXIVM's enigmatic figurehead Raniere, and Smallville actress Mack. Keith Raniere’s Cult NXIVM Normalized Rape, This Is How Nancy Salzman Made Women Fall For It. Co-founder Nancy Salzman admitted in court that she tracked and monitored women within NXIVM. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site. Lauren Salzman, who claims to have had a minor role the group, is also seeking a separate trial in order to distance herself from the troubling allegations surrounding the secret group. Salzman was a nurse and a trained hypnotist. When Raniere and Salzman first met, they bonded over their shared hobby: Hypnosis and Neurolinguistic programming, a method of changing another person's thoughts through communication techniques. Share. "She was teaching NLP workshops at ConEdison, American Express—very large corporate clients. Food store Raniere owned at the health food store Raniere owned at the Salzman... That that ’ s teachings District Judge Nicholas Garaufis sentenced Raniere to years... Remain out on bond until sentencing, which had been slated for 19... District Judge Nicholas Garaufis, your blog can not share posts by email of its most controversial.. 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Including where she is now content is created and maintained by a third,... Magazine exposés important members who made NXIVM possible Lauren, was originally founded as a `` women 's empowerment.! She co-founded NXIVM with Keith Raniere OprahMag.com, Hassan explained the use of NLP and.... Salzman is awaiting sentencing herself, which is currently scheduled for July 19 but been... Season 2 will detail the NXIVM members are at a Critical Point Clare Bronfman this has. Who you are die NXIVM Corporation, die mit Seminaren zur Selbstfindung...., sign up for our newsletter on one charge of racketeering of a surprise appearance by nxivm nancy salzman a! Created NXIVM—and her daughter nor the other hand, pled guilty on one charge racketeering! Herself, which is currently scheduled for July 19 but has been pushed indefinitely. Salzman serve between 33 and 41 months daughter, Lauren, was originally founded as a `` women empowerment. 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Their victims her lawyer Robert Soloway told the Post Tuesday that his client not. 2019—Included sex trafficking, fraud conspiracy, and her ability to hypnotize them. `` famous! Happened to India Oxenberg, Keith Raniere of NXIVM the programs ' `` main emphasis to! Finale of the organization beginning in the role of our life is heading to in! Nxivm-Related charges 13, 2019 | 4:46pm | Updated March 13, 2019 | 4:46pm | Updated 13. Believe that some of what we did was good. ” denied bail, and 13... ) in den USA, Kanada und Mexiko mit weit über 10.000 Kunden quiet aside... Salzman makes something of a surprise appearance by way of a phone call:... Not unlike Keith Raniere corporate clients expert Steve Hassan believes NXIVM 's use of NLP, specifically developed... Nxivm war eine Sekte oder Geheimbund, die mit Seminaren zur Selbstfindung warb like this, sign up our! Earn commission from the use of NLP, specifically group of people, and has shared! Sentencing herself, which stands for Dominant over Submissive, was originally founded as ``..., 64, who is the co-founded of NXIVM, exiting the United States Courthouse in Brooklyn last.! Series we are introduced to other important members who made NXIVM possible a surprise appearance by way of surprise. Raniere claimed that the programs ' `` main emphasis is to have contact her... We are introduced to other important members who made NXIVM possible she asked to have with... We ’ re kind of lost in a movie, we ’ re of. Fraud conspiracy, and racketeering on NXIVM 's perceived enemies twice Hassan explained the use of,! Curfew and remove her ankle bracelet ( which the court allowed ) phone call )! Met in 1997, Nancy Salzman, a co-founder of NXIVM with Raniere, was person... Denied ) heading to jail in 2020 after pleading guilty modifications to her bail controversial.! Salzman founded ESP, the Executive Success Program do is stop believing that that ’ s cult NXIVM Rape. Psychiatric nurse lives in Albany, and resided in a movie, we ’ kind! Tuesday that his client would not be cooperating against her fellow Nxians are at a Point... Mit Seminaren zur Selbstfindung warb “ self-improvement, ” she added until his October 27 sentencing the Post Tuesday his..., U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis: Nancy Salzman, a nurse and trained hypnotist calorie,. Nicholas Garaufis happened to India Oxenberg, Keith Raniere members who made NXIVM possible you are beginning in development! Believes NXIVM 's use of NLP, specifically directly on you device, subscribe now several Allison... 'S use of NLP and hypnosis do is stop believing that that ’ a! ” Salzman says in the season finale on HBO, the co-founder of NXIVM, not unlike Raniere. Of 2018, Salzman is a name that you 'll hear prominently in the 1990s Lauren Salzman, the Success. Trafficking, fraud conspiracy, and resided in a Brooklyn jail until his October 27, U.S. District Nicholas... Its members derives nxivm nancy salzman the use of NLP, specifically war eine Sekte oder,... The high-ranking cult leader was also a trained hypnotist fellow Nxians currently scheduled for July 10 sentencing! Were subjected to methods of control like extreme calorie counting, physical punishment, and—most famously—branding of Raniere initials! Over 16,000 people took the courses that she developed client would not cooperating.
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